Curse

matthew5276 · May 10, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

HI,

This is my latest build that I have made. It is meant to test two things really. The use of Bonneti's defence on monks, something that I have always liked the sound of, but never got round to testing. It is also fairly anti 3 warrior frontline, but again, I havent tested its use against that build.

Anyway, the build:

[build prof=Warrior/Elementalist][Disrupting Chop][Eviscerate][Executioner's Strike][Shock][Bull's Strike][Frenzy][Rush][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=Warrior/Warrior]["Coward!"][Steelfang Slash][Sever Artery][Gash][Frenzy][Enraging Charge][Disarm][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=Mesmer/Elementalist][Energy Surge][Shatter Enchantment][Power Drain][Diversion][Shame][Inspired Enchantment][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Ward Against Foes][/build]
[build prof=Paragon/Mesmer][Vicious Attack][Spear of Redemption]["Go for the Eyes!"][Cry of Frustration][Song of Restoration][Ballad of Restoration][Aggressive Refrain][Signet of Return][/build]
[build prof=Paragon/Mesmer][Crippling Anthem]["Go for the Eyes!"][Vicious Attack][Mirror of Disenchantment]["Never Surrender!"][Anthem of Flame][Aggressive Refrain][Signet of Return][/build]
[build prof=Monk/Warrior][Reversal of Fortune][Aura of Stability][Guardian][Restore Condition][Spirit Bond][Holy Veil][Bonetti's Defense][Soldier's Defense][/build]
[build prof=Monk/Warrior][Word of Healing][Patient Spirit][Infuse Health][Protective Spirit][Dismiss Condition][Holy Veil][Bonetti's Defense][Soldier's Defense][/build]
[build prof=Ritualist/Assassin][Weapon of Remedy][Weapon of Warding][Wielder's Boon][Splinter Weapon][Ancestors' Rage][Protective Was Kaolai][Recuperation][Dash][/build]

I havent set atrtributes yet... but it is fairly obvious anyway.

Well.. the basic idea:

no.1: Calls spikes, tactics etc. Spreads pressure through deep wound and quick attacks, fairly meta stuff.

no.2: Again fairly meta. Spreads KD's, deepwounds etc. This bar is very useful for linbacking aswell.

no.3: Very meta, Use esurge on recharge, shame the other monk on spikes, co-ordinate diversion and shame with warriors KD's for forced casts etc. Shatter on request or when you see a nasty enchant go up. Inspired tainted vs heroway. Use the ward around the monks to stop those pesky warriors. Power drain should be used both on monks and on diversion. Co-ordinate this with the CoF paragon.

no.4: Again fairly meta ^^. Use BoR and SoR on recharge, spear of redemption to remove blind, spike with viscous + GFTE, and also spread deep wound with the same skills. Sync CoF with the mesmer... generally try to get most Aegis' with it though.

no.5: Quite an experimental build, mainly designed to be able to not use a cripshot. Never surrender to releive pressure, spike and spread deep wound wtih viscous + GFTE, mirror any aegis' that get through, or remove attunements off all eles in a SF or shockwave spike. Use crippling anthem as much as possible, in range of as much as the team as possible.

no.6: Pretty obvious monking uses. no need to describe them here. Use soldiers defence to relieve melle pressure. Wand as much as you can between healing and kiting, and use bonneti's on spikes for damage reduction and for a nice energy boost.

no.7: same as above.

no.8: Normal flagging duties... splinter the paras and warriors, run flags, help relieve pressure with party heals and recup. defend against ganks etc.

variants:

no.1 well a rending axe or a warrior with death pact might be useful here.

no.2 any warrior bars can fit here depending on your style of play. Magehunters, Conjure dragon slash, a second axe warrior are all good choices.

no.3 I am undecided about keeping this character or swapping to a cripshot. If you choose to swap to a cripshot, then remove the crippling anthem for a standard cruel spear bar. P-block can work here aswell. ward vs foes can be swapped for melle if wanted.

no.4 Can be swapped to cruel spear for more offence, or you could use 2 DA paragons for even more anti melle stuff, although I dont advice this.

no.5 swap to a cruel spear if you wish to take a cripshot. Otherwise, I cant think of many changes.

no.6 + 7 any monk bars can be used here. although soldiers defence is usefull with the 2 paragons.

no.8 I advise the rit flagger although an ele or monk can also work here.

Ok, thats about it.

If you have any comments or suggestions for the build please post a reply or wisp me in game on M A T T H E W S. Any comments on the bonneti's idea would be nice, and any guilds willing to test this will get a big cyber cookie ^_^.

Thanks in advance,

Matt.

kev read · May 10, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

I like the idea of Bonneti's on the monks (even though I don't GvG, I do obs), and Soldier's Defense is useful as well...

Looks like the mes will be taking all of the pressure if the opposite team is 3 wars... Although Ward Against Foes will help. I always have liked WaF more then WaM because you can stop ALL attacks (if your team is good at kiting) rather then just 50%, and its easier to keep up.

Elee · May 10, 2008, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Hi, I'd go with [[Death Pact Signet] on your no. 2 and drop [[Signet of Return].

I'd also consider dropping [[Never Surrender] since you have [[Song of Restoration], [[Ballad of Restoration], [[Recuperation] and [[Protective was Kaolai].

[[Bonettis Defense] is 8 Adren. On a monk it takes time to build up that amount of adrenaline since you only get very few points from being hit and have better things to do than wanding people.
I guess it usually will be not available when your monks need it most. Also keep in mind that it'll cancel out when you use a skill so when you are under heavy pressure your monks automatically cancel their blocking when trying to keep everyone alive.

RotteN · May 10, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

why [[crippling anthem] ? you only have 2 melee characters and one of those has a pretty sweet snare already with [[coward] while the other'll manage just fine with [[bull's strike] and [[shock]. As for snaring flaggers, just go with a cripshot then ...
Monks look like the ones used in paraspike builds.
The split-ability of the build looks very poor at best.

I wouldn't run it ...

matthew5276 · May 10, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Thanks for the replies

Elee: would you suggest dropping sig of return from both of the paras or just from one? I agree with the comment on never surrender, it is a little over defensive. Would you suggest a more offensive skill instead? spear of lightening or so?

Rotten: You are forgetting that (unless I am mistaken) crippling anthem affects the paragons attack skills aswell. I chose the mesmer over the cripshot as I was more attracted to the slightly superior shutdown on the mesmer over the splitability of the ranger.

The monks are similar to the ideas used in paraspike... with the addition of bonnetis I think. The split potential of this build is fairly low, but as I said earlier, a crip-shot can replace the mesmer which makes it similar to the meta used at the moment.

Matt.

Farin · May 10, 2008, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Unless the monk is the only target around, Bonetti's is terrible since a warrior will just hit someone else and force you to cast and get rid of it.

matthew5276 · May 10, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

The point of bonettis is meant to be used when being spiked, a warrior switching targets then will destroy the spike, and if he does attack, then the spike will be lessened, and the monks will gain ~15 energy or so, while KDed alone, he can then get back up and continue casting.

Matt.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · May 11, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

I'd listen to what Farin has to say, herd he waz gud warrior....

But yeah if you're not ready to take critism from people who have played in a no1 guild about your build then you're not ready to make a build and place it on a forum.

Zabe · May 11, 2008, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew5276

The point of bonettis is meant to be used when being spiked, a warrior switching targets then will destroy the spike, and if he does attack, then the spike will be lessened, and the monks will gain ~15 energy or so, while KDed alone, he can then get back up and continue casting.

Matt.

The point is, that you won't have bonettis ready in 90% of cases when you would need it.

matthew5276 · May 11, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

I have to disagree with you there, I think that monks, with the ward vs foes and the mass cripple will have enough time to wand people because they do not need to kite so much. You also gain some adrenaline from being hit, which will help it charge aswell.

I tested it in ra to a good amount of sucess, although I do realise that RA is a completely different arena to GvG. I will try to find a guild willing to test it fairly soon.

Thanks,

Matt.

Div · May 11, 2008, 09:03 AM // 09:03

If you really want dual stances, take disciplined. It'll take the equivalent of getting killed a few times to build enough adrenaline for bonetti's. Sure, you can attack as a monk, but the tradeoff is the loss of natural regen just to build up a defense skill that probably won't get used if they decide to stomp your mesmers?

That build needs more snares. Anyone can literally run right past your team to split.

Tyla · May 11, 2008, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Use different cancel stance on the "Coward!" Warrior, in my opinion.
20 seconds is quite lengthy.

Maybe change Power Drain to Power Leak on the Mesmer aswell, since you have GoLE.

Maybe Anthem of Flame on your second Paragon can go too, since you can use Song & Ballad to keep Aggressive Refrain up. I'm assuming you're using that for Soldier's Defense though, but even then, you *can* run Disciplined Stance on your Monks.

Bonetti's Defense is quite redundant though, becasue you: Are moving around alot as any caster. No amount of snares will change that in my opinion.
Plus the fact it ends on a skill.

RotteN · May 11, 2008, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew5276

Rotten: You are forgetting that (unless I am mistaken) crippling anthem affects the paragons attack skills aswell. I chose the mesmer over the cripshot as I was more attracted to the slightly superior shutdown on the mesmer over the splitability of the ranger.

Surely it triggers, but since when do paragons need to snare their targets ? Even as annoyance towards the enemy frontline, it's a waste of an elite.

And like Farin pointed out, bonetti's is stupid indeed. Surely, it'll "save" you on a spike when it's charged up (never ?), but any warrior will half a brain will fake-spike you, watch you use bonetti's, and then make your mesmer explode, or simply pressure you till your whole backline dies horridly. [[disciplined stance] is a better option.

lutz · May 12, 2008, 05:17 AM // 05:17

The glyph of lesser is useless in that build, and Defensive Anthem would be better than the ward for unremovable defnese, if that's what you're looking for.

Clearly you have an 8v8 heavy build, and having 2 (off-warrior) interrupts on a 12s and 20s recharge is pretty dumb; you're going to have to pack a lot more shut down on your bars if you plan to get any shut down through.

With this build your monks willl get raged by enemy mesmers, so you're looking at an "all or nothing" kind of thing. Especially since you have no passive defense (Aegis & Defensive Anthem & Ward - foes doesn't count), you're counting on all active protting, and literally nothing else (not even a BSurge, Water Ele...). You pretty much automatically lose if the other team stays alive for 30 seconds.

Nirconus Otreum · May 16, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Okay, first of all, I just want to point out that Crippling Anthem can greatly stall the opponent's frontline, including spikes. I would give it a try in a scrimmage, but as everyone's said, it's quite possible that a different elite could be more useful. It only worries me because you really only have two characters who need the Cripple (keep in mind that it can help all of them), and one of those two is a pretty good snarer.

Bonetti's definitely has potential and is a change of pace, but if you want my honest opinion I think those Tactics points could be spent in better attributes and just be replaced with [[Dark Escape] and [[Return]. I realize that Dark Escape has a rather long recharge, but to be honest you'll probably be using it more than Bonetti's.

Not having [[Energy Burn] with Energy Surge bothers me, but the Mesmer still looks like a solid Denial.

warriorsmiley · May 23, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

I know the whole bonnetti's defense on a monk sounds good but I dont see how its going to really work. Going m/a with dark escape works out better.

One reason is if the monk is going to get spiked he just simply throws up bonnetti's right? Wrong what if the monk doesnt have the 8 aderaline to use it hes pretty much dead or close to. Now if the monk had dark escape all that spike damage is now halved and he can still cast spells on himself to help heal where as with bonnetti's once he cast a spell its gone.

Another reason is you dedicated 2 skills to stances. What would happen if lets say you face a dervish with wildblow thats pretty much 2 skills on your skills bar on not one but both your monks that are pretty much useless. But if it works for you more power to you.

Another thing that's getting to me is your second warriors skill bar. Now it looks good dont get me wrong but how well do coward and steelfang slash really work together. The way i see it is if you use coward and the foe is knocked down you cant use steelfang right away you have to hit him first to get that stroke of aderaline back and then use it which to me just doesnt make much sense. I would rather take bullsstrike get to kd the foe and +damage all in one skill.

LifesRestorer · May 24, 2008, 12:59 PM // 12:59

if a monk really has the time to wand spam for adrenaline he probably has masses of energy, making the energy gain from bonettis redundant.